I have to comment on this week’s annoucement of Delphi for PHP. I was a Delphi programmer for about 5 years before taking up PHP about 6 years ago. What a convergence.
I have a great fondness and respect for the old Object Pascal based Delphi. Delphi’s VCL has been influential, inspiring the GUI components in Java. And, of course Ander Heijlsberg went on to put a huge stamp on C# and .NET that would be familiar to any Delphi programmers.
I’ve always admired this approach of extending the language syntax to make common things easy and for the integration between the language and the tools. In Delphi, this was evidenced by the excellent properties support. Six years later, this is the feature I miss the most in PHP. This language extension approach has seen its culmination in C# and LINQ. It almost pains me to say it, but the cutting edge of commercial language design is at Microsoft now.
On the other hand, I’ve never had that much respect for Borland as a company. We were big enough to have Borland representative’s come to our office and try sell us their products. They were terrible at the mechanics of selling into big companies. I was in their beta programs. I went to their conferences. I’ve never had any sense that they know what they are doing business wise. Inprise? What were they thinking? Now here they are, just having gotten their asses kicked by eclipse in the Java IDE space and what are they working on? They release an IDE for PHP, just as Zend is embracing Eclipse in the PHP space. Brilliant!
I don’t quite know what Delphi means now. To me, its always been and IDE plus Object Pascal. What is it now? I also don’t quite know what Borland has become. Is it CodeGear now? I guess that the Delphi for PHP IDE comes from Quadram and their now discontinued QStudio product. And the VCL is their WCL (no linkage found). Anytime I’ve been touched by the corporate entity that was Borland, confusion ensued. I’m confused now.
It appears that the PHP version of the VCL will be released on open source. There is nothing at the sourceforge project, yet, but I’ll be interested to see what it looks like, if only for old times sake.
The Delphi tool approach was to serialize an object based representation of an application, then offer tools to create that serialized representation, and to load that representation at run time. In Delphi, that serialization was done into the form files (.DFM). I’ll be interested to see how Delphi for PHP does it. Perhaps, this is an area where the Eclipse PHP Development Tool can learn. I know that I definitely had Delphi in mind when I was writing my column on Object Serialization for this month’s php | Architect.
Meanwhile, if you want to see the Delphi influence in PHP with code that you can download today, take a look at the Prado framework, which I imagine to be like the VCL for PHP, but without the supporting IDE.
This is a space I’ll definitely be watching.
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a better link for those that want to check PRADO is http://www.pradosoft.com/, for the V3 version.
anyway very interesting and inspiring post.
Prado is cool! Prado framework is being packaged into VCL components in Delphi’s VCL for PHP. One of the best things about VCL is that it’s easy to package up other frameworks and code into reusable visual controls. There is even a PHPBB component! The SourceForge project is set up http://sourceforge.net/projects/vcl4php and will be opened up when D4PHP goes gold.
Aside from the naming confusion, this could be huge for PHP.
I’ve done both Delphi and PHP development. The best part of Delphi is the component architecture: in the 90s while MS people were messing around COM, Delphi built a huge third party and open source component ‘market’. This is because components are so easy to create, and they generally fit together very nicely. It’s also allowed dev teams to divide and conquer large problem areas, throwing senior OO experts into component development, and more junior people ‘gluing’ those components together.
While PHP has greatly third party and open source support, IMO it has missed a bit of this unified component model. IMHO Delphi for PHP could help a lot in that, without interfering with PHP’s underlying flexibility. I think it could even expose more people to PHP — the visual component model is so intuitive and easy to learn. It’s actually possible to do some data base apps with no code in Delphi, and bringing that to a LAMP environment would be cool.
Just a comment on the Borland history — from all indications CodeGear has shed itself from that. They would never have created this product if they were part of Borland (PHP $$$$ ALM ’solutions’). This sounds more like small tools friendly to the developer, like the good ol’ days. And contrary to the name confusion, I actually knew what it meant right away — as in, “how cool would it be to have a delphi-for-PHP type tool?”
We think our work with PHP is just one good step towards Codegear helping developers who matter. We have alot of work left to do, so keep giving us feedback.
Our Delphi for Win32 release is one of our more exciting ones in a while and that combined with new things in Jbuilder with Eclipse and the PHP effort is making for a good first quarter for developers at Codegear.
[...] just read post on Professional PHP about Delphi for PHP. It is somewhat an old post. I really would like to see [...]
So when exactly is Delphi for PHP going to be released?
It will definitely be interesting. Most PHP IDEs to date have only set up shop on the corner of the IDE market and none have challenged the visual development area as of yet. Most prior attempts appear to be abandoned.
I had been waiting for months for Qadram to release Qstudio but at the time it was to be released, up comes this announcement that the QStudio project was being merged into a commercial product from Code Gear. I wasn’t too enthralled because this meant more delays in release but it is nice to see a large number of visual goodies coming out of code gear that doesn’t make me want to scream “vaporware”.
Yeah, there’s PHP Eclipse but I don’t know how hard they are looking into going the visual route at this point. Zend still has a competing IDE in the market and they are working on PHP Eclipse too. It would be interesting to see how much cross-platform compatibility really plays into the hands of these types of projects – A Windows-only application to build cross-platform tools…. is this what made Eclipse such a threat in the IDE market segment or not? (just asking, not trying to go zealoticious on y’all)
Delphi for PHP .cool!
Does Delphi for PHP support Chinese?
I found many PHP IDE Development tools did not support Chinese very good,include Zend Studio.
Very wishe Delphi for PHP can support Chinese very good!
Well, I just purchased Delphi for PHP a few hours ago, so it’s been released.
Delphi for PHP – Ð½Ð¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ñреда быÑтрой разработки от CodeGear (Borland)
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This is very very good news…why?…because MS will never make anything that support non-ms (e.g. PHP)…which means Delphi wont have to compete with VStudio…which means Delphi will continue to thrive…because it is my favorite development tool.
thanks.
I see its out, but it only has a one day trial period and its only for Windows.
Its going to be difficult to sell this product to me. I do my PHP development on the mac. I probably won’t be able to review it for a couple weeks until I can get a PC setup for testing so I don’t waste time during the eval day, etc. I definately want to review it, but they haven’t made it easy for me.
I hope to see the vcl code released to SourceForge soon. I’d also like to see an example of the PHP code that is generated for a small application. Perhaps someone will upload one somewhere? Movies don’t do anything for me. Show me code.
I bought Delph4PHP yesterday ! Going through the samples today.
It rocks ! What will it do for me ? I will be able to write applications that I can host on cheap linux hosting with MySql.
Jeff – Use Parallex or VmWare to test your 1 day trail.
Have not found any bugs yet. Read instructions before installing.
Very usable and impressive if your familiar with Delphi or Borland C++
[...] Discussion blog [...]
I use to be a Delphi developer (up until version 5). I also developed in PHP. I loved both environments. I think marrying the two is an excellent idea. However, as I am trying out the trial version (1.0), I see injustice done to both of these mature environments. I’m having trouble making simple database connections and I’m digging in deep to figure out the problem, which is not very RAD-like. The documentation is not that good, unlike the old Delphi which had excellent documentation. The initial experience is a vague reminiscence of Delphi but this is definitely nothing like Delphi, at least not yet. I used to put sophisticated multi-threaded Delphi DB Apps together in a matter of minutes. But I’ve been doing nothing but debugging since I installed the trial software. I’m not so sure if the product is market ready yet.
Delphi for PHP is a great product and there is a new forums website dedicated to Delphi for PHP: Delphi-PHP Forums. Check it out.
Claims have to be backed by facts.
This is the code “Delphi for PHP†generated. As seen, this is MYSQL code produced for Oracle – Naturally it throws an exception – Do you call this a great product? I wouldn’t want this in my mission critical environment! Would you?
****************************************************************************
—–
(odbc_oracle): ALTER SESSION SET NLS_DATE_FORMAT=’YYYY-MM-DD HH24:MI:SS’
—–
—–
(ODBC_oracle): CREATE TABLE T_DICTIONARY (‘dict_id’ int(11) unsigned NOT NULL auto_increment,
‘dict_tablename’ varchar(60) NULL, ‘dict_fieldname’ varchar(60 NULL, ‘dict_property’ varchar(60) NULL,
‘dict_value1’ varchar(60) NULL, ‘dict_value2 text null, PRIMARY KEY (‘dict_id’));
Also, be aware of the fact that you have to put the Database Name in the HOST field not the DatabaseName. Of course you wouldn’t know that until you’ve dug deep into the PHP code and spent valuable time debugging the product right out of the box.
I am a php coder (would say hacker but it’s so emotive) and seeing the news that Delphi for PHP was being released I bought a copy. Guess for me the name Delphi, thinking of pastures green with Delphi 1, 2 … and what it did for pascal RAD was enough.
I’ve got to say Delphi for PHP is dismal.
In todays world with standards compliance on the web gives you no option. You can’t read the code, its a mess. Table layouts, relying on third party components … just look at the code it produces. And read the forums!
To top that the product is awful to use, just look for help on a VCL component and you’ll be told what you know, its a VCL component!
Appalling.
Thats a shame, alleycat & Delphi Fan. I have such fond memories of Delphi, but I was a Delphi 3-4 user. They did release the vcl4php code on sourceforge and I’ve had a chance to take a look at it. However, I haven’t had a chance to dedicate a day to the trial version and won’t until after I get back from php|tek. I do plan on doing a full review here.
I use to love Delphi, lets hope this lives up to the hype
btw, can we expect delphi for PHP to jump into Eclipse’s IDE as well? just like Jbuilder and the coming soon Ruby IDE?
I’ve never used Delphi. I did use Turbo Pascal by Borland. I looked at Delphi 4 or 5 years ago and the code looked like Object oriented Turbo Pascal 7.0.
Now comes Delphi for PHP. My buddy who is a Delphi programmer bought Delphi for PHP. Of course that in and of itself does not mean much because he buys a lot of computer related stuff.
I hear mixed reviews on Delphi for PHP. Since I’m a PHP Programmer I suspect I will buy it some day soon. Some seem to like Delphi for PHP. and some don’t.
Never thought that I would see Delphi that is PHP not object oriented Turbo Pascal.
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I use to love Delphi
Still very confused, what is the best php RAD ide ? any suggestion?
Let us say, if Delphi was owned by Microsoft, it would have kicked all languages a**. Delphi is the best tool by far. Im’ sure DeLphi4PHP would be greate, if not, the best. LONG LIVE DELPHI.. MY KING..
Well, What can I say? Just Delphi Rulez, and what more? PHP too! so, I was an old programmer in Delphi, but times change, and I must change and migrate to multiplataform. Now days, this news was really goood!
So, I hope, be part of this community…
I totally enjoyed, this article, because I went through the same emotions with Borland. I too often had discussions with Borland representatives and started thinking that they have wax in their ears. They simply never listened.
Fact is Delphi for PHP was a marketing stunt which I think worked. It provided PHP developers with a productive IDE.
But now that Codegear has moved on, what will there future be. Will they have real technological leaders like Anders Heijlsberg, or just revert to being a follower in the market?
We need clean and productive development tools. Enhancements, improvements and even changes of and to the language to support solutions is of paramount importance. I would rather have one single syntactically clean language, rather this myriad mess of concocted languages which is confusing, overlapping, idiosyncratic and incomplete.
More of the same is not better. Of course we need Developmemt tools for the Web. But does it have to be PHP now. Save me the ‘It must run on Windows and Linux argument’, that is an implementation and deployment issue.
Is it not time that we have some great new language designer that revises the artifacts we are building with and designs something much more simple to glue all together.
I was happy with Object Pascal, but it needed more cleanup. And why was Ada abandoned. Should Object Pascal not have converted into Object Ada? Should PL/SQL (Ada based language) not have become THE database language standard for ALL databases, And should the Web not have had a clean web language along the same lines.
The point that I am trying to make, is that our development landscape is messy. I am not convinced that either Microsoft, Sun or IBM have to be our only options. Java and C# as languages may be highly acclaimed and popular, but they certainly do not present and read as well as Ada.
What is important, is that we do not progress forward, not move sideways, or go backward!
@Pieter Viljoen
I think not going going forward might be a big mistake somehow
I was hoping to try this IDE out as ihave the Zend for Eclipse which is the buggiest piece of crap ever (so far)! Only problem is I am also on a Mac like a few people above. It would be greate to see a version for us too.
I started using Delphi for PHP version 2. I never used version 1 and find it to be excellent. Most of the negative opinions are from people who looked at it but didn’t use it on real world projects. I used it on a mid size but extremely complex project and founds it’s templating features to be effective and easy to use. The Visual Studio IDE is the reason ASP.Net is so popular. Except for CodeCharge (which is more of a code generation tool) PHP4delphi is the only truly visual drag and drop IDE for PHP.
CodeGear RAD Studio 2007 Architect …
I have to comment on this week’s annoucement of elphi for PHP. I was a elphi programmer for a [...]…
CodeGear Delphi For PHP 1.0 …
I have to comment on this week’s annoucement of elphi for PHP. I was a elphi programmer for a [...]…
I used it on a mid size but extremely complex project and founds it’s templating features to be effective and easy to use. The Visual Studio IDE is the reason ASP