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	<title>Comments on: The PHP scalability saga continues</title>
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	<link>http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/</link>
	<description>PHP Programming, Web Development, PHP Advocacy and PHP Best Practices.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 05:14:22 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Terresa Resner</title>
		<link>http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-85063</link>
		<dc:creator>Terresa Resner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 13:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-85063</guid>
		<description>Really enjoyed this, thanks for posting. What is the affiliation with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.l3media.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;web design san diego&lt;/a&gt; meetup group next month?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really enjoyed this, thanks for posting. What is the affiliation with <a href="http://www.l3media.com" rel="nofollow">web design san diego</a> meetup group next month?</p>
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		<title>By: Kami Mandolini</title>
		<link>http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-85060</link>
		<dc:creator>Kami Mandolini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 11:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-85060</guid>
		<description>Awesome this is a great share, thank you for putting this article together! Saw this post tweeted by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.odegardmedia.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;odegard media&lt;/a&gt; on twitter. Looking forward to more and will reply to those who comment back for next months group meetup!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome this is a great share, thank you for putting this article together! Saw this post tweeted by <a href="http://www.odegardmedia.com" rel="nofollow">odegard media</a> on twitter. Looking forward to more and will reply to those who comment back for next months group meetup!</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Fuecks</title>
		<link>http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-98</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Fuecks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-98</guid>
		<description>Just throwing another link into the party: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.arachna.com/roller/page/spidaman/20040707#the_scalability_holy_grail&quot;&gt;The Scalability Holy Grail&lt;/a&gt; - wise remarks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just throwing another link into the party: <a href="http://www.arachna.com/roller/page/spidaman/20040707#the_scalability_holy_grail">The Scalability Holy Grail</a> &#8211; wise remarks.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill K</title>
		<link>http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-95</guid>
		<description>Jeff, very good links on PHP scalability. It seems like PHP does try to focus on its niche and lets other technology do what they do best. With this in mind, I&#039;m paying close attention to MySQL Cluster and how it might handle scalability on the database side. I can only imagine how fast things can get when you use an in-memory database. My initial euphoria was dampened by the memory requirements (said to be 2.5x your DB size by some reviewers), but in looking over some papers, it seems like you each DB node can serve up a portion of the DB. Why hasn&#039;t there been more hysteria from PHP scalability guys on MySQL cluster? PHP on the front-end and MySQL Cluster on the back-end sounds like a match made in &quot;shared nothing&quot; heaven :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, very good links on PHP scalability. It seems like PHP does try to focus on its niche and lets other technology do what they do best. With this in mind, I&#8217;m paying close attention to MySQL Cluster and how it might handle scalability on the database side. I can only imagine how fast things can get when you use an in-memory database. My initial euphoria was dampened by the memory requirements (said to be 2.5x your DB size by some reviewers), but in looking over some papers, it seems like you each DB node can serve up a portion of the DB. Why hasn&#8217;t there been more hysteria from PHP scalability guys on MySQL cluster? PHP on the front-end and MySQL Cluster on the back-end sounds like a match made in &#8220;shared nothing&#8221; heaven <img src='http://www.procata.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: CT</title>
		<link>http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>CT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2004 20:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-93</guid>
		<description>Really excellent posts today by you, Schlossnagle and Fuecks.

I find one of the great strengths of PHP is that I can code small, medium and large sites in a way appropriate to each. Small sites can be traditional mixed PHP and HTML pages because nothing is faster to code. Medium sites can us templates, db and some light controller logic. Large sites can deploy a framework to improve working as a team. This makes programmers scalable as well as their apps. 

The great thing is that all of these applications use the same concepts, just rolled into or unrolled from libraries/frameworks. This allows you to code small, smart and fast, and makes it easy to scale up an app as needed. 

I think PHP need a whole new take on the idea of &quot;design patterns.&quot; In Java/C++ there tend to be bad ways and a good way. In PHP there are still bad ways, but there are multiple good ways. When there is more than one way to do the same thing, it&#039;s understanding the concept and choosing the right path given the requirements.

Perhaps these are more best practices, but there is a pattern feel to them as well. Traditional compiled language patterns apply to PHP when dealing with the purely algorithmic. But has any PHP group dealt with things like the Request and nailed down the key concepts and then shown 2-3 solid implementations depending on the scale and type of the application? We now need some guidance with how and when to best use exceptions. The list goes on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really excellent posts today by you, Schlossnagle and Fuecks.</p>
<p>I find one of the great strengths of PHP is that I can code small, medium and large sites in a way appropriate to each. Small sites can be traditional mixed PHP and HTML pages because nothing is faster to code. Medium sites can us templates, db and some light controller logic. Large sites can deploy a framework to improve working as a team. This makes programmers scalable as well as their apps. </p>
<p>The great thing is that all of these applications use the same concepts, just rolled into or unrolled from libraries/frameworks. This allows you to code small, smart and fast, and makes it easy to scale up an app as needed. </p>
<p>I think PHP need a whole new take on the idea of &#8220;design patterns.&#8221; In Java/C++ there tend to be bad ways and a good way. In PHP there are still bad ways, but there are multiple good ways. When there is more than one way to do the same thing, it&#8217;s understanding the concept and choosing the right path given the requirements.</p>
<p>Perhaps these are more best practices, but there is a pattern feel to them as well. Traditional compiled language patterns apply to PHP when dealing with the purely algorithmic. But has any PHP group dealt with things like the Request and nailed down the key concepts and then shown 2-3 solid implementations depending on the scale and type of the application? We now need some guidance with how and when to best use exceptions. The list goes on.</p>
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		<title>By: John Lim</title>
		<link>http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>John Lim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2004 04:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-91</guid>
		<description>Hi Jeff,
&lt;p&gt;
Nice Summary.
&lt;p&gt;
&gt;&gt; John Lim expresses some skepticism about the inherent scalability properties of any language,
&gt;&gt; claiming its the developer skill not the language.
&lt;p&gt;
A slight correction. I certainly don&#039;t believe it&#039;s merely developer skill per se. 
The technology needs to be mature enough to support scalability. But scalability does not come out of the box.
&lt;p&gt;
And you&#039;re right there is an obsession with scalability which is irrelevant for the typical website. Not many sites will ever get slash-doted.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeff,</p>
<p>
Nice Summary.
</p>
<p>
>> John Lim expresses some skepticism about the inherent scalability properties of any language,<br />
>> claiming its the developer skill not the language.
</p>
<p>
A slight correction. I certainly don&#8217;t believe it&#8217;s merely developer skill per se.<br />
The technology needs to be mature enough to support scalability. But scalability does not come out of the box.
</p>
<p>
And you&#8217;re right there is an obsession with scalability which is irrelevant for the typical website. Not many sites will ever get slash-doted.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Moore's Blog &#187; un-Friendster: fired for blogging</title>
		<link>http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Moore's Blog &#187; un-Friendster: fired for blogging</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/#comment-187</guid>
		<description>[...] had hoped that more information would come out about Friendsters Java to PHP conversion (1 &lt;a href=&#039;http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/&#039;&gt;2&lt;/a&gt; 3).  Sadly, I don&#039;t think thats going to happen.  It seems [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] had hoped that more information would come out about Friendsters Java to PHP conversion (1 <a href='http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2004/07/01/the-php-scalability-saga-continues/'>2</a> 3).  Sadly, I don&#8217;t think thats going to happen.  It seems [...]</p>
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